Startup Therapy Podcast

Episode #82

Ryan Rutan: Welcome back to another episode of startup therapy. I'm Wil schroder founder and Ceo of startups dot com along with my co host Elliot's near the Ceo of startups dot com. Today, we're going to talk about the benefit of a hard reset for our startup now. It's been insane year as we record this. And a lot of startups have been hit really hard, although really as startups go, you know, many of us have had to deal with hits like this even before 2020, we're talking about layoffs, cutting costs pretty much everywhere and in some cases really having to shut down almost entirely when it happens, it sucks. There's nothing cool about it. So I don't want to sugarcoat it. However, today I think we should talk just a little bit about some of the hidden benefits that exists from being forced to do a hard reset on the business. And kind of, no one ever talks about this stuff. So e when you think in your mind about what it means for a startup to completely clear the decks, staff, office space, vendors, even investors, what makes you think, hey, this is actually kind of an opportunity.

Wil Schroter: You mean outside of just taking the ball and moving in with your parents and go into the basement. But, but you know, I want to be measured in the approach here because when things happen that have a large impact on your business that have kind of meaningful consequences, it is scary and it's okay to be scared and I think it's appropriate to take a little bit of time and kind of feel that feeling and feel how scary it actually is, but then it's time to get back to work, right, Then it's time for the dust to settle in. The first step is typically kind of evaluating what is the new normal, right? In other words, what are the new rules to this game? And is there opportunity within those news, new rules for us to benefit as a startup? And I gotta tell you man, the first thing I think of because it's near and dear to what we've gone through unfortunately, several times his team in how this can ultimately give you an opportunity to really dig into your team.

Ryan Rutan: Yeah. And kind of clear the decks, like I said earlier, right? Like, I mean, here's the thing, let's not talk about it in terms of this hard reset being something we signed up for. What we're talking about is this is a massive shit sandwich that was handed to us, right? And while at the time it tastes horrible. And it is what we're saying is, you know, it's not always all bad because as we get into our startup and as we start to make all of these ad hoc decisions in creating processes and hiring people signing vendor agreements, signing that office lease, that maybe we shouldn't have signed in all of these other decisions. It's rare that we ever get the chance to do a do over, no doubt on the other hand, it's pretty cathartic, right? I mean think of how many times we've had to do it, not in like a hard shutdown, but it kind of shed our skin kind of way.

Wil Schroter: Yeah. And it's pretty common place for startups to shed their skin kind of all over the board. What typically happens at an early stage is you're not looking for Mr or Mrs right to join you on this epic journey. You're looking for Mr or Mrs right now.

Ryan Rutan: Absolutely. All too often. Even co founders.

Wil Schroter: Yeah, absolutely. No doubt about it so early on. I mean I, I can't even say for us probably to our first million dollars in run rate, we made some leverage tires in those leveraged hires were effing toxic. Not only did they not perform tactically, but they also were really challenging to work with her again, but they're bad place and we did what we thought was right at the time because we had other things to focus on. And I'm not going to say, look, I don't regret those decisions because it allowed us to kind of be more focused on North star and growth. But there's a cost to kind of keeping all those leverage tires or keeping those toxic folks around

Ryan Rutan: there is and you know, kind of what you dug into. I just want to unpack that part. We're making a lot of decisions really quickly and obviously personnel are a big part of that in the early, early formative stages of our business. We're making a whole ton of decisions based on what might happen. So it's just so different than in an established company. You know, if you're working in an established company, I'm gonna even use what a newer established company like a google, for example, google has been around forever at this point. If you hire an engineer, you kind of know what engineers do there and if it doesn't work out, you got plenty of money to hire another engineer to do the same thing right at a startup, you don't have any of that. You have no idea if the job you're hiring for is even the right job. You know, I think we need an engineer to build this part of the product, but we don't even know for sure whether this part of the product is going to sustain with the business, so we're going to hire somebody sort of on spec sort of based on only the resources we have and kind of hope it works. And as you're saying, it kind of doesn't always work.

Wil Schroter: If you think about it pragmatically to your point, you're talking about what you don't you're speculating on what you need, right? You're speculating on what resources you need. So not only do you have kind of that lens, but you also have this resource challenge where you don't really have much to pay. I mean we certainly didn't have much to pay and I think entrepreneurs are generally pretty good at at selling the dream, so to speak. And I mean that in a positive way, but when you say, hey, I need somebody to lead sales and guess what? I'm only going to pay you commission and I think we need a sales leader right now, your options shrink astronomically.

Ryan Rutan: And what's interesting to me about that is we don't think about that at the time. Or more specifically, we rarely get an opportunity to take true stock of who all of those people are and all those decisions that we made en forcibly have to rethink all of them. So let's say the business gets hit really hard and you know, it's, it's 2020 when recording this during COVID, a lot of businesses got hit hard. They've had to let go of a lot of people. Unfortunately. However, the real catharsis here, the real question, how many of those people would you hire back if the answer out of 100 people you let go is eight. What does that say about about the rest of the team, Right. And I would charge you because things might be emotional right now because you're going through that right now, give it a month. Give it a year, wait till you see with enough time in comparison how many of those were truly the best hires as you can appreciate. It's rare, right?

Wil Schroter: You know, it's funny, I think of a sports analogy around we got 23 seasons out of these people. And would we sign him to an extension? Right. Would we sign another contract now? It doesn't work like that in the real world. But that's the reality. We got to see these people in their spots interacting with the team. And I gotta tell you in a lot of cases again, we're just moving so quickly and the cost to downsize and good times and the focus to downsize and good times is a bit of a challenge. But there are a lot of spots where we've got relics on the bench, so to speak.

Ryan Rutan: We've also got relics in what the position even is, right? So for example, when we were five people in a room, anyone in the room that had taken accounting horse in college

Wil Schroter: was our CFO.

Ryan Rutan: That was the requirement for the job at the time. Right? Or you're the one person that can write code. So you're the CTO, right? You've got these miniscule job requirements to get what are essentially massive jobs, Not the least of which by the way, is the Ceo Oh, you had the idea. You must be qualified to be

Wil Schroter: a company.

Ryan Rutan: Right? It's silly. But that's how it starts. But that said those requirements, like those job descriptions have probably changed dramatically since we hired that person, in which case Geoff who's our CFO because he was the one person that took an accounting class could not possibly get a CFO job anywhere else, right? Only at this company because he happened to be sitting in the seat when that job was needed. If we are to go back now many organizations, 50, 100 people, etc. No way in hell we'd ever hire him again. Poor Jeff. You know, because the job outgrew Jeff, right? It happens all the time, especially in a fast growing startup. So part of the benefit to that hard reset is saying, okay, you know, when that job comes up again, we're going to look at what the current version of the job is, not, the historical version that someone whose grandfather themselves into the other side of it is when we do a hard reset again, we're still talking about people right now. Part of what we get with a hard reset are just fresh legs in the game. Right? I mean, part of that is just, look, the first team that went in when it was just an idea and we were all working at the kitchen table and we didn't even have an office and we were just trying to like sing for our supper. They're tired

Wil Schroter: right

Ryan Rutan: there, you know, they're in their stripes, but they're tired and maybe they weren't ready to go a few more quarters if we're sticking with our sports analogies. And with that, the hard reset allows us to bring in fresh legs with a fresh perspective,

Wil Schroter: you know, I got to say we've got hundreds of people and as the C. 00. I have the bad fortune and oftentimes of kind of leading the downsizing efforts in one thing I wrestle with and I'll be honest, as a C. 00. Is even if that person is wrong right? Even if the position outgrew them because they were in the room early and took the risk and took the ride with us. I always feel like we owe them something and I know that's a wrong way to think, but it's like, you know, I have to fight that cognitive bias a little bit and try to stay enormously pragmatic, but it's not easy because to your point when you're around the kitchen table, you're

Ryan Rutan: thinking ship,

Wil Schroter: who was it, Jeff? You know, Jeff was cranking at the beginning of this thing, he took a risk, he left his job and now the positions outgrown him or he's a bad player. I feel like this is, it's really, really tough.

Ryan Rutan: It is and you're torn between, especially if if you're the founder and he's one of the three people that believe that you need to begin with your tour between this emotion of I really oh this person because you know, they did me a solid so to speak by coming on and helping drive this thing, but at the same time I've got all these other new people and they don't have any backstory with Jeff, right? And they're just like, man, this guy is way under qualified, he's way out of his depth, right, what is he doing here? And so, you know, what is my commitment to all of these other people? If I'm holding on to somebody that's only there because I feel bad about it, you know what I mean? It's a

Wil Schroter: complicated emotion. It really is because again, and I agree you're doing a disservice to new folks and in my mind wrongfully, you're still, you know, being loyal to Jeff because he was there. Right? So so I agree, it's it's it's a challenging conundrum until these moments happen and you have a time to go back and say, would I have resigned these people? Should I resign these people to some degree? Oftentimes, you know exactly who they are? And it's like a messy room in the house and you're like, I can't get to that right

Ryan Rutan: now, right, that's a good way to put it. Yeah, yeah, I get it.

Wil Schroter: And I hate to, you know, by no means of diminishing somebody's value and calling them a messy room. But I think the analogy plays a little bit here, but when you can get to it, I do want to talk about the other side of this. Well, we've never regretted it, we've never regretted. And I say that honestly, I know it sounds hyperbolic, but when we've known that there was a challenging team member and we've moved that person along, whether it was circumstance driven or whether it was a reaction to something they did, we've never looked back and said that was a shitty decision.

Ryan Rutan: Yeah. Or said differently. We never look back and say, Hey, let's hire them back, which is kind of the same thing, right? We're looking at it and we're saying if it was such a bad decision, then we wish we could have them back. And here's the thing that I think it's worth noting lot of these people are our friends, right? Folks listening don't necessarily know this, but a lot of the folks we're talking to are still people we do barbecues with, right? So these aren't necessarily, people were like, these are bad people. We were just saying these wound up being bad fits for the business at that time or at that juncture and it happens like there's no way around it. The thing is when we get into this hard reset moment where we have to scale back where we have to, you know, like let a lot of people go, The point is a lot of these issues get solved for us, you know, it's, it's, it's hard. I mean, again, it feels shitty at that time, but we get to this point where all of a sudden we're like, look, I've got to clear the decks no matter what, so I've got to recognize that some number of these folks I might want to hire back, but most of them, I won't, which really has you guessing were those people supposed to be there to begin with? Now that I get a do over, what does that do over look like And what does that staff look like?

Wil Schroter: It's true. I can honestly say we have gone through it as a business. You and I almost talked about it will name that person and say, do you remember that vintage or do you remember that team? And it continues to roll over and roll over and roll over and we do have a lot of the same core staff if somebody's kicking, but they're staying. But to your point earlier, the spotlight shines on it when all of a sudden revenue doesn't cover apex.

Ryan Rutan: Right? And, and at some point, you know, even if you're looking at having to go through one of these hard reset moments and you're thinking, oh man, this is going to suck to let go of all these people again. It does. But there is a silver lining to this and the silver lining is, it's probably the only time maybe knock on wood that you'll ever get the chance to hit the control Z undo moment for all of those shitty hires that you made, it's also an opportunity and I think you touched on this, I like this to reset the culture and let's face it, at which point we're heading to the hard reset, which means things aren't going well. There really isn't much of a use case for great culture and a company like heading to its doom at the same time, these things kind of tend to go hand in hand and by the time we're about to do the hard reset, there's a lot of consternation in the company and I think it's worth touching on this. How hard is it to undo all of that political bullshit and consternation and negativity. Like how long does that take to do it slowly by slowly person by person, maybe forever.

Wil Schroter: I think last time it took us 14 days for me, a lot of bourbon. But yeah, it's outside of these catastrophic moments that we're talking about. You know, Covid or some, again macro event, it's constant, right? Because no matter who you hire, you're getting to know them for the first time, so to speak. So you're gonna continue, In other words, you're gonna continue to make bad hires hates a bad hires. You're gonna continue to bring on the wrong people, but you have a responsibility to the organization to continue to shed that skin and bring on the right people,

Ryan Rutan: right? I think if if I'm a founder faced with this situation, I have to be looking past the actual event, you know, the layoffs or the restructuring or whatever I'm about to do And I have to start thinking about the other side of this discussion about what this landscape looks like, you know, post apocalyptic event because I have to start taking inventory of all the stuff that wasn't working again culturally, organizationally staff wise, optics, whatever and say now that we know what we know now, how do we build a whole new organ that's completely different, you know, and be able to kind of shed and reset Instead of just being 100% focused on the fact that we're going to have to let go of a bunch of people and go through a tough time. I think seeing the other side of it matters. And I'll give you an example because again, we're in 2021 record this Airbnb when Covid hit my numbers might be off here. I didn't research this. I'm thinking off the top of my head, I want to say they let go of 7000 people and now, now obviously when Covid hit their business came to a standstill, so understood, but also remember they were planning on going public at that moment. right? I mean it was, it was such a 180 from where their momentum was and now they're, as it stands right now, it's mid november of 2020. Uh, there in queue to go public again, think about what's going through that Ceo's mind in the team's mind knowing they're heading into full apocalypse for their, for their business and no idea when they're going to come out of it, thinking to themselves, we still have a great business, we still have a great idea, Maybe this is a good time to kind of re cast who the staff is, what initiatives we are working on, you know, maybe is as awful as all of this sounds. There is an opportunity here to build the V2 of our business With the hindsight of everything we just learned because short of that event, how the hell would they have been able to reset 7000 people? It would have never happened

Wil Schroter: right in, I commend, you know, brian Chesky for helping get them through that again, because they were they were uniquely positioned in the wrong way for Covid, I mean they and we work right, it's just a catastrophic problem and give him credit that he's been able and I'm sure his team has been able to to effectively downsized and lead back out of this and and go back after this, the I. P. O. Opportunity. So again, we talked about it earlier, it can be an incredible reset, but I want to stay with the reset to, you're often times if you're lucky and I'll use Airbnb, you're oftentimes resetting on second base, you know, Airbnb had a proven model, the world changed for a period of time, but they had product market fit and that sh it takes forever to nail, right? So these companies that are, you know, are so we're certainly not as big as Airbnb that are our size, we know what products work, We know where the product market fit typically is. So we get to reset beyond, you know, the term second base. We get to reset already knowing that right, Which makes it so tantalizing and so exciting.

Ryan Rutan: Well, let's talk about all the other decisions, you know, aside from staffing That we get to reset because actually, once again in COVID 2020, I'm watching a lot of this happen. For example, how many people with the covid reset got to unwind from their office leases ourselves included,

Wil Schroter: right?

Ryan Rutan: I was talking to a founder last week and he said that he had an office space that he was spending $150,000 a month for that he was able to just walk away from and and he owns the business. So it wasn't a funded company, meaning that's his money and and all I could think to myself is just because of a change of circumstance, a hard reset. You all of a sudden were forced to get rid of $150,000 a month liability. That prior to the hard reset was just part of your optics. In fact, they had done millions of dollars of T I attended improvement to their office space. They were getting more invested in this space because up until then the expectation was that you had to have it. And all of a sudden hard reset comes and he gets to unwind $150,000 a month and put that into his pocket? Think of how powerful that hard reset is going to be for the rest of his

Wil Schroter: Business. It's a big deal. And might I remind you that we were looking to buy a $7 million 40 days before this happened. I mean we were getting to the goal line, going back to the hard reset. We go from looking at buying this and then maintaining additional office. You know, we're all in an office for some odd reason and then kind of post covid when we unwind our lease, we realize that folks probably still want to get out of the house, right and they still want to go to an office. So we effectively stipend everybody in the country and said, if you guys want to go to a coworking space will cover it. Okay, Again, this is a horrible proof point of how bloated our office expense was. We had Count them three people, three people using the coworking space and we were about to spend $7 million dollars effectively to accommodate those three people.

Ryan Rutan: I mean, come on man. But it's fascinating to me because given current momentum and I want to zoom in on this for a second, given current momentum, we always think that the decisions were making in the timing of those decisions makes sense. At no point with given the momentum of hey, companies growing more office space, you know, big is good, would we have ever stopped and said, hey, what about the opposite? What about no office space? And we just send everybody home for good. It would never occur to us to say that right in hell, We're recording an episode on this. So it's, it's not like we don't think about this stuff and so this hard reset that is Covid is forced upon us. And at first it was a bit heartbreaking, Remember relationship moving out of our office and we've been there almost 10 years and thinking, man, you know what a moment in time and I was sad about it and I haven't thought about it since realistically it's hard to believe how strange and cathartic an external event can be. And there was nothing bad about it, which it was bad for landlord, but we just don't have that expense anymore. Right? And there's no point where you and I are looking at each other saying, wow, I really miss that rent payment, right? I mean it's, it's unbelievable.

Wil Schroter: It feels like 20 years ago. I don't know if you got, you saw this on slack the other day, but one of our team members had to go to the office to pick up some random male that got there and posted a recording on our slack of the office, which, you know, looks pretty much the same and we sold off a lot of our furniture there. And all I could think was not only do I not miss the optics, how do I not miss

Ryan Rutan: that agreed? And so let's talk about how many Past decisions that get to get put on the table and this is again, company's gonna do a hard reset right? Um let's say the company's going from $5 million $1 million, right? For whatever reason and like man, we have to rethink everything. Think of how many shitty contracts we signed because at the time it absolutely made sense. Oh my God, we're gonna grow so much. So we have to set up this virtual phone system. Oh my God, we're gonna have so much payroll. So we have to be on this overpriced payroll system like you name it right? When we bought a whole bunch of other startups, when we're going through the m and a process in the early days of startups dot com, I got to see all of these decisions firsthand and we were talking mostly to funded companies. So here's what it looked like. We've got this great idea. We just took on a ton of funding from a bunch of venture firms and what do big growing aspiring companies do they sign all of these big name contracts with payroll providers and SAS providers and office space and everything else like that because that's what big companies do except they didn't become that big company, right? They bought the big boy clothes, but they never became the big boy, but they still have all those liabilities when we came in and bought those companies that, that was the hard reset. We were like, you know, part of my friend, fuck this. Like these are all, none of this stuff makes sense. And so we had the benefit of just shredding all of those expenses in cutting up all of those old agreements to restart the business, which lo and behold became wildly profitable without the downside of those legacy decisions. And the only difference was we weren't liable for the legacy decisions so we can make those decisions.

Wil Schroter: I remember distinctly a $5,000 monthly uber line item for one of the companies we acquired and I was like, what the funk is this? Now again, we appropriately downsized a lot of that cost. But on the other side and you said it before, there's this bizarre psychology around if we're growing, we should do this. I mean it was, it was us to a degree, we're like, we're big enough now that we need this really luxe suite office, but we didn't, we didn't need that. And as companies get an opportunity to kind of, here's one thing that you, me and Ryan often say probably miss categorize this industry as the bad guys, but we say, what would a private equity, the company think or potential acquire think if they looked at what we're working on right now.

Ryan Rutan: We get fired every week.

Wil Schroter: But we say it like it's an important right? It's an important exercise. But you know, and it gives you an opportunity to kind of look at the P. And L. At a granular level and understand what did you buy on spec, what did you buy on ego and what's actually returning

Ryan Rutan: correct? And look, we had the benefit when we buy a company again, these are a lot of venture funded companies. We bought six companies where we would just go through the P and L go through the, you know, the income statement and say, look, we're just going to start with everything being at zero and we're going to work backward to see what we absolutely need. And now in our case it was a little bit different because we had a lot of duplicative expenses, you know, and so maybe they were paying something and hosting that we were paying the same and hosting. So we could combine those expenses or obviously a lot of overlapping people and services and things like that. But by and large, what we generally found in almost every single deal we looked at, even the ones we didn't buy were the $5,000 uber expenses were scratching your head going, this isn't necessary at all right. I mean, you just actually don't need it.

Wil Schroter: That's the ego spec acquisition. That's just pure actually, that's, that's pure ego spec is a little different.

Ryan Rutan: Sure. But here's where it gets really interesting to me. There are all these businesses and sometimes they are the businesses that, that were running, the folks that are listening that we're running right now. That could be a wildly efficient business. It could be a profitable business. It can have unlimited runway by way of profitability. If it were just reset if you just started over and said, you know, This building, this building, the business is making $2-$3 million dollars a year. It's not all the money in the world, but realistically we shouldn't be losing money. We should be making money on that revenue. We're just sitting with an infrastructure and with intention That was made for a $10 million $3 million dollars by this point, we wouldn't have made half the decisions that are sitting here. And how powerful is that reset. You know what I mean?

Wil Schroter: Again, having gone through it and us examining companies kind of on the other side, it's one of the few incredibly unique opportunities that come out of events like this.

Ryan Rutan: It's not just costs, it's also revenue as well When I was running an agency and uh, and we're doing okay. Like the, you know, the agency itself I think was doing maybe $8 million dollars of revenue, which which was okay. Nothing wrong with that. But we ended up winning a big client Lilly, and and they gave us $250 million dollars worth of business and it had us do a different type of reset where we got to go back to all the clients that were currently servicing and say, do they still make sense for us? Do you know, almost none of them did. Now. It's not just because lily was such a big piece of business. It's because we didn't enjoy working for a lot of our clients, right? Some of it was just dumb work, just work. We didn't enjoy, some were obnoxious clients. That happens. But we realized that we were forced to go through this kind of like look back that we would have never done if we were still that $8 million dollar business and say what customers do we really want to have. I think the same goes when you're doing a hard reset in the business, when you're going from say 10 million to two million. you start to say, what are some products that we're probably never going to make money on. We're just servicing because we had revenue at the time or we're just trying to keep this business unit happy or we're just trying to like, you know, satisfy this investor demand and now that we don't have to do any of that. What do our customers and our products look like. I think that's a hard reset.

Wil Schroter: I like that a lot will. That's very, very insightful. I like the concept that if you're thoughtful and you're in the situation that you can build a more nimble business, we are not consistently feeding the beast because what happens is you kind of take your hands off the wheel and to some degree and you keep hiring folks and you keep racking up these expenses and then you've got to figure out a way to pay for all. Oftentimes all this bloat and it's just a vicious cycle, right? So you keep some of those products that are more work than good. You keep some of those clients that are enormously challenging because you're over your toes and you have to keep feeding this beast. But in this case, what we're saying is when you lean down, you can start to make some different decisions.

Ryan Rutan: I think what it does is it gives you some cover and some support to actually make those decisions. So for example, I hate to use the Covid example, Covid sucks. It's terrible. But Covid gave Airbnb the support it needed to let go of 7000 people. And I don't think for a second brian Chesky woke up and gonna go, oh God, I'm so glad Covid took care of that problem for me. I'm sure that's not that what was going down. However, sometimes, you know, a crappy event can still provide a universal understanding for why some of these hard decisions need to get made. I go back to my buddy with 100 and $50,000 month. Office Ali's, there's no version where he's saying to himself, wow, I hope Covid comes along and allows us to get rid of our office space or had Covid not come along. If he just said one day, hey, by the way, we're no longer going to have an office space. Everybody go home. That would have been like death to his business from a reputation in social capital standpoint. But sometimes these hard events and I hate to use Covid. That's just such a globally horrible event. Sometimes these hard events give us the cover that we need to make a reset. That really we probably needed to make all along and it gives us kind of a fresh set of downs to restart the business with an entirely new cover.

Wil Schroter: Agree. And I also agree that Covid as a catalyst for reset. It is awful. But what you're really saying is it's a trojan horse. Let's not use Covid. Let's pretend it was something else. But you do need that trojan horse to come in in certain situations to be able to make those decisions big enough decisively enough and quickly enough without kind of disrupting the status quo, so to speak.

Ryan Rutan: Yeah, I agree. And I think that like, you know, in some cases, you know, take Covid off the table, like you're saying sometimes you just lose a big client right? It's that simple. You know, when we won the big eli lilly client at the agency, we always, you know, had our Ragnarok moment where we're afraid that they were going to call and it was, it was gonna be the end of Asgard. And so uh, that happens, happens all the time. You know, big clients get lost or an investor pulls out or there's some cataclysmic event that runs beyond your control in some way. But it forces a massive decision. And I think when we talked to founders about going through those moments, it's really important that we coach them to think beyond this problem because at the time you're so consumed by it all you can think about is letting people go in the hardships and what's going to happen next etcetera. And again, it's all awful. But if you're really a ninja about this, you start to say yes, 100%. This is all awful. But my job as the founder Ceo leadership of the company is to step beyond that and say what does version to look like? What are all the efficiencies and opportunities. This is about to create and how can we focus on that as the endgame, not just letting people go, Yeah, that's a wrap for this episode of the startup therapy podcast. This is Ryan Rutan on behalf of my partner Wil schroder and all the startups dot com family thanking you for joining us and we hope you'll continue to join us. Be sure to subscribe, rate and comment on itunes or wherever you love to listen to startup therapy. You can find all of our episodes at startups dot com slash podcast. If you're looking for more amazing resources to launch or grow your startup, be sure to head to startups dot com and check out startups unlimited. It's everything we have to offer from our online university to our amazing community of experts and founders and even all the tools we've built like biz plan, fungible and launch rock. It's everything a founder needs visit startups dot com slash begin that startups dot com slash b E G I N. You'll thank me later.

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